Are we too CHEAP

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The Hobo said:
he made a nice job at a reasonable price
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He did, but that's not what's being questioned here. He's like many tradesmen/women up and down the country, doing good work and running his business badly. Just because you're good a trade doesn't mean you can run a business. It's amazing when you think that to become proficient at most trades takes 3 - 5 years. Yet people can and do start a business without even the most rudimentary understanding of how they work or what's required to do it properly and successfully.

The point I was making was to answer @carys and others who say "you can't charge that round here". Firstly that's not true, and secondly they'd find that out if they tried it. That example was in Wales and in an area with thousands of second homes and holiday properties owned by people who would quite happily pay more than they're being asked for. As I said though, if you don't quote for the higher figure no one is going to try and force you to take more money are they?
 
imago said:
He did, but that's not what's being questioned here. He's like many tradesmen/women up and down the country, doing good work and running his business badly. Just because you're good a trade doesn't mean you can run a business. It's amazing when you think that to become proficient at most trades takes 3 - 5 years. Yet people can and do start a business without even the most rudimentary understanding of how they work or what's required to do it properly and successfully.

The point I was making was to answer @carys and others who say "you can't charge that round here". Firstly that's not true, and secondly they'd find that out if they tried it. That example was in Wales and in an area with thousands of second homes and holiday properties owned by people who would quite happily pay more than they're being asked for. As I said though, if you don't quote for the higher figure no one is going to try and force you to take more money are they?
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you must be in a good location my area to many chancers will under cut you and you will in up no work /on the up side im the only one doing cornice work but alas its not every day
 
imago said:
He did, but that's not what's being questioned here. He's like many tradesmen/women up and down the country, doing good work and running his business badly. Just because you're good a trade doesn't mean you can run a business. It's amazing when you think that to become proficient at most trades takes 3 - 5 years. Yet people can and do start a business without even the most rudimentary understanding of how they work or what's required to do it properly and successfully.

The point I was making was to answer @carys and others who say "you can't charge that round here". Firstly that's not true, and secondly they'd find that out if they tried it. That example was in Wales and in an area with thousands of second homes and holiday properties owned by people who would quite happily pay more than they're being asked for. As I said though, if you don't quote for the higher figure no one is going to try and force you to take more money are they?
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North Wales is absolutely beautiful and easily commutable to the Midlands loads of second homes and retired expats it's a really busy area for myself, a business needs business,
business is about profit the more profit the more successful business why run a business if you don't want it to be successful.
 
I think theres an element on here of I'm in a great area and I earn xxx cos I'm worth it.. if they moved up north or to less affluent areas you would sit at home most days priced out of the market...
The lads from up north if moved down south would have the reverse effect....
 
The Hobo said:
you must be in a good location my area to many chancers will under cut you and you will in up no work /on the up side im the only one doing cornice work but alas its not every day
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windy said:
I think theres an element on here of I'm in a great area and I earn xxx cos I'm worth it.. if they moved up north or to less affluent areas you would sit at home most days priced out of the market...
The lads from up north if moved down south would have the reverse effect....
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I live and work in the second largest City in the UK with literally thousands of small building firms in direct competition. It has some of the most deprived areas in the UK, and none of the top 10 affluent areas. One of the top 3 largest Asian populations, and the second largest volume of social housing of any local authority in the UK. Given that it's in the Midlands it cannot by definition be in the South.

So how can it be possible to earn a good living? By running my business to target those who are willing and able to pay proper rates for a proper job. It's just that simple.

Look at your business, find all the ways to lift it above the cheap and cheerful brigade. Go after the customers you want, market yourself, it's all perfectly possible to do. You don't even have to try anything new, just look at the companies getting the sort of work you want and copy them.

I notice that in all this there are lots of "you can't charge that here" along with "that wouldn't work in this area". I also notice that there isn't one "I tried doing it that way and it didn't work.".

Ultimately it makes no difference to me what anyone charges, or how they justify charging low or high prices. However saying that something can't be done without trying it is nonsense. I guarantee that there are companies within a few miles of every single member of this forum, irrespective of location, who are charging good rates. I also guarantee that there are 10 times that number in the same areas who won't try to change what they do but will rage at the clouds about how "it's alright for you/them because ...". I'm not having a go at anyone, simply pointing out that to say you can't earn good money in any area of the UK just isn't true. Five minutes on Google will show you that to be so.

If you want to earn a low basic wage then that's fine. If you want to earn more then you'll have to make it happen for yourself.
 
windy said:
I think theres an element on here of I'm in a great area and I earn xxx cos I'm worth it.. if they moved up north or to less affluent areas you would sit at home most days priced out of the market...
The lads from up north if moved down south would have the reverse effect....
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I renovated a property in Liverpool once and couldn't believe the money some people had..got enough to have the latest designer labels, spend all day in the beauty parlour on a Saturday and spend £200 on night out but can't afford to pay a spread £250 a day? The local painters we had on were on £150 a day that was 12 years ago.
 
windy said:
I think theres an element on here of I'm in a great area and I earn xxx cos I'm worth it.. if they moved up north or to less affluent areas you would sit at home most days priced out of the market...
The lads from up north if moved down south would have the reverse effect....
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One thing is this .
Say up north you get a grand a week down south you get 1500 .

Take house prices in to it and price of beer . My mortgage is 200 ish a month . That's a 3 bedder with a big garden. Beers 2 quid ish a pint . Now dont know what it is darn sarth but I reckon 200 gets you a 6 x 3 shed and you dont get much change out a tenner for a pint.
So I reckon that bit extra soon goes . Leaving you on less then us northerners.
Then as far as i know all holiday and sky and internet etc are same price . So where is money at . I reckon lads on best screw are the northern lads who go darn sarth for week then back up north at weekends
 
FreeD said:
I renovated a property in Liverpool once and couldn't believe the money some people had..got enough to have the latest designer labels, spend all day in the beauty parlour on a Saturday and spend £200 on night out but can't afford to pay a spread £250 a day? The local painters we had on were on £150 a day that was 12 years ago.
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Cause there all f**k**g thieving T***s @JessThePlasterer
Rossi46 said:
But he’s not doing that every day
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He doesnt do f**k all the lazy c**t @theclemo
 
imago said:
I live and work in the second largest City in the UK with literally thousands of small building firms in direct competition. It has some of the most deprived areas in the UK, and none of the top 10 affluent areas. One of the top 3 largest Asian populations, and the second largest volume of social housing of any local authority in the UK. Given that it's in the Midlands it cannot by definition be in the South.
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Would of been quicker to just say s**t hole mate xx
 
Danny said:
someone said that to me before... down here... I quoted to skim a kitchen £1200 (didnt really want it) she accepted and I had to cancel as my grandfather got ill and I decided to spend the next 8 weeks at his bedside. I explained this to her and recommended another plasterer.

I phoned the plasterer up and told him what i quoted "I cant charge that much" he said. I said why not? "Thats too much!!!" Ok I said how much would you charge he said some dumb figure. I said fine you do it for that and I will pay you direct.

He soon changed his tune when he cottoned on and he charged the same price and he ended up going through this whole house earning stupid money. The client was over the moon because he did a great job.

He now wants me to go pricing for him on other jobs but sod that :D

you dont need many of them to make a living...

@owls will also no doubt chime in....

he employs lads and I would take a guess they earn day money... but they get all the benefits of employed.

but the customer could go direct with someone on similar money as the subbies they would save a lot of money but they want the expertise and the whole package that owls offers...

I was taught when giving a price to just brush past it if it is nothing... if you start wincing and and saying oooh it will be expensive and generally warming them up to think it will be expensive you wont get it. BUt just changing the way you say things and the words you use makes people feel they are getting more and £3k is not really a lot of money....

anyway thats enough from me on this subject
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The problem is some spreads are happy to work for chump change and all it gets is a race to the bottom. A lot is how you convey and present yourself and how you stand out from someone else. You do have to have a bit of patter as well and be a good communicator, i price every job on its merits, although I don't do much domestic stuff these days.
 
imago said:
I live and work in the second largest City in the UK with literally thousands of small building firms in direct competition. It has some of the most deprived areas in the UK, and none of the top 10 affluent areas. One of the top 3 largest Asian populations, and the second largest volume of social housing of any local authority in the UK. Given that it's in the Midlands it cannot by definition be in the South.

So how can it be possible to earn a good living? By running my business to target those who are willing and able to pay proper rates for a proper job. It's just that simple.

Look at your business, find all the ways to lift it above the cheap and cheerful brigade. Go after the customers you want, market yourself, it's all perfectly possible to do. You don't even have to try anything new, just look at the companies getting the sort of work you want and copy them.

I notice that in all this there are lots of "you can't charge that here" along with "that wouldn't work in this area". I also notice that there isn't one "I tried doing it that way and it didn't work.".

Ultimately it makes no difference to me what anyone charges, or how they justify charging low or high prices. However saying that something can't be done without trying it is nonsense. I guarantee that there are companies within a few miles of every single member of this forum, irrespective of location, who are charging good rates. I also guarantee that there are 10 times that number in the same areas who won't try to change what they do but will rage at the clouds about how "it's alright for you/them because ...". I'm not having a go at anyone, simply pointing out that to say you can't earn good money in any area of the UK just isn't true. Five minutes on Google will show you that to be so.

If you want to earn a low basic wage then that's fine. If you want to earn more then you'll have to make it happen for yourself.
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It's finding your target market isn't it, I got onto sites because I could complete as a principal contractor and undercut other firms because my overheads are lower i.e. I don't have office staff or qs's to pay with fancy cars and the like. It's to easy to say I'm in a shite area or blame this and that, at the end of the day if your self employed the aim is to make profit and money what's the point of bumping around on beer money you make aswell go and be on someone's books.
 
owls said:
It's finding your target market isn't it, I got onto sites because I could complete as a principal contractor and undercut other firms because my overheads are lower
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and also what type of work you want to do. I could probably make more money on the higher turn over straightforward 'white box on the back' type of extensions, but I prefer the more unusual/odd stuff. I definitely couldn't do site work though.
 
The Hobo said:
if all this bull s**t about big money is the group then im out
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It's not about big money for me really. It's more about earning enough to be able to spend less time at it and not having to work like a dog.

It's also a point of principle about how I value all the years of experience and the knowledge gained. How much is that worth? If a customer wants access to it along with the tools and time required to complete the work what would be fair? Who should decide? The customer? The cheapest of my competition? Or me?
 
I went to quote a customer today to skim a bedroom I doubt he will accept my quote I turned up in my uncle's landscaping van :LOL: been helping him fencing and level the garden for a customer,he said what you doing in landscaping van I said shifting 3 ton of sand from the back of it so a patio can be laid
 
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