Opinions on thin coat render technique!

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zombie

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Bit miffed today had a very experienced couple of renders cover a job for us base coating out a small single story extension.

All gear on job no scaffold all straight forward work admittedly the odd bad bit of dodgy blockwork to get over but nothing major a nice stress free easy job really.

Anyway called over to see them later in the afternoon and wasn't overly impressed with there work nothing massively major but there was something just not right to me.

Anyway after making pleasantries and talking render bollox they mentioned that they don't spat there basecoats at all just flatten straight away with refina plastics I was gobsmacked.

To me this seems wrong but these guys do tons & tons of the stuff and have a decent reputation I'm positive if we'd of been there and spatted we would have left it better.

Thoughts???
 
Yeah I’ve seen this, the same guys I was talking about on the other thread about not using primer. These guys just trowel on over the mesh and you could see every trowel lap and in fairness the top coat covered it quite well until the sun hit it. I always got my basecoat on and put a serrated edge over it and then bed in the mesh and skim a tight wet coat over the top and spat it, then I’d sponge float later in the day and then spat again to a smoother finish. Then it’s ready for priming. Some guys don’t use serrated edges or spats but I think it’s rough. I’ve seen guys bed the mesh in and trowel it in so hard that the mesh covers with the first coat but I don’t like that method. Just people taking short cuts all the time with everything they do, nothing gets done properly. I’m not an expert on the bagged render game but I’ve got a method that works for me and it has to be serrated edge and spat the second coat.
 
Yeah I’ve seen this, the same guys I was talking about on the other thread about not using primer. These guys just trowel on over the mesh and you could see every trowel lap and in fairness the top coat covered it quite well until the sun hit it. I always got my basecoat on and put a serrated edge over it and then bed in the mesh and skim a tight wet coat over the top and spat it, then I’d sponge float later in the day and then spat again to a smoother finish. Then it’s ready for priming. Some guys don’t use serrated edges or spats but I think it’s rough. I’ve seen guys bed the mesh in and trowel it in so hard that the mesh covers with the first coat but I don’t like that method. Just people taking short cuts all the time with everything they do, nothing gets done properly. I’m not an expert on the bagged render game but I’ve got a method that works for me and it has to be serrated edge and spat the second coat.

Got to admit I am a little worried about this job, I could see a hump from my van from the road. I know top coats cover a lot of sins but like yourself we tend to go possibly a bit to far the other way so have never left anything the bucket coat needs to cover.

I'm in 2 minds to go back and put a tight coat over it all and spat it but not sure how that would work once it's been left to dry?
 
Seen this the other day...render coat was rough...lines in it etc...though it was going to be Tyro on top...but it was topped with 1.5mm. If you look closely now can see the imperfections. Personally would leave a job like that.
 
Seen this the other day...render coat was rough...lines in it etc...though it was going to be Tyro on top...but it was topped with 1.5mm. If you look closely now can see the imperfections. Personally would leave a job like that.

Are you saying it covered ok with 1.5mm or looked bad?
 
Has anyone tried to put a tight coat and spat etc over a bone dry base coat to try and resolve a initial poor base coat?

If so did you prime it first?

Don't want to jump in and cause a different problem but also don't want to chance 1.5mm top coat looking shite!
 
Has anyone tried to put a tight coat and spat etc over a bone dry base coat to try and resolve a initial poor base coat?

If so did you prime it first?

Don't want to jump in and cause a different problem but also don't want to chance 1.5mm top coat looking shite!
I did it years ago, some cowboys left a terrible mess and I was asked to smooth it over with another tight coat and spat it off. It was sas prorend we used. I can’t remember priming it, think I just went straight over and the render was bone dry. I was subbying and just following orders so not my problem if it failed, which it didn’t. If the render is still green it should adhere ok?
 
I have seen quite a few renderers that leave lines and then spray silicone on left textured. Looks great until the sun hits it.
 
Got to admit I am a little worried about this job, I could see a hump from my van from the road. I know top coats cover a lot of sins but like yourself we tend to go possibly a bit to far the other way so have never left anything the bucket coat needs to cover.

I'm in 2 minds to go back and put a tight coat over it all and spat it but not sure how that would work once it's been left to dry?
I here plenty lads saying top coat hides slot but surely it's about getting it as bang on as you can rather than relying on your top coat imo
 
Has anyone tried to put a tight coat and spat etc over a bone dry base coat to try and resolve a initial poor base coat?

If so did you prime it first?

Don't want to jump in and cause a different problem but also don't want to chance 1.5mm top coat looking shite!
Go first with the ruler to see where the humps are ,fill in the hollows , then tight coat over the hole job. No primer needed.
 
Thanks for the replies, do you know the more i think about it the more pisses off I'm getting!

Wouldn't mind if it had of been a hard job was probably the easiest day we would if had all year abdoloutley no need for it not to be 100% bang on!

This is why always end up working weekends every time we sub any work out I'm always massively disappointed.

Not saying were perfect but f**k me we at least try to leave a A1 job!
 
Forgot to say... if you see the humps now, later will be disaster. He top coat magnifies humps. Covers trowel lines etc not deeper than 2 mm , but only if the background is flat. Anything else will be on display after the top coat is applied.
 
Thanks for the replies, do you know the more i think about it the more pisses off I'm getting!

Wouldn't mind if it had of been a hard job was probably the easiest day we would if had all year abdoloutley no need for it not to be 100% bang on!

This is why always end up working weekends every time we sub any work out I'm always massively disappointed.

Not saying were perfect but f**k me we at least try to leave a A1 job!
Pffft piss and wind! Overboard and skim the c**t!
 
I don’t do any of this new render lark but when I used to sand and cement I used a straight edge and Darby how come now days folks just slap it on and spat it ? If your going over block work and it’s not very straight how is waving a 2ft spat going to achieve anything.
 
I did it years ago, some cowboys left a terrible mess and I was asked to smooth it over with another tight coat and spat it off. It was sas prorend we used. I can’t remember priming it, think I just went straight over and the render was bone dry. I was subbying and just following orders so not my problem if it failed, which it didn’t. If the render is still green it should adhere ok?
Primer is designed t control suction. In winter I never use primer and yet have the best finishes.
 
I don’t do any of this new render lark but when I used to sand and cement I used a straight edge and Darby how come now days folks just slap it on and spat it ? If your going over block work and it’s not very straight how is waving a 2ft spat going to achieve anything.

A spat is the way to go for flattening off base coats after mesh not the depth for straight edges at that stage.

But of course the substrate below needs to be in the ball park in the 1st place.
 
So you bed your mesh on then flatten as i understand so that in theory is like a scratch coat . Then you put a base coat over that which is your top coat right ? But at no stage that wall will get a straight edge over it it’s all done with a 2ft spat ?
 
So you bed your mesh on then flatten as i understand so that in theory is like a scratch coat . Then you put a base coat over that which is your top coat right ? But at no stage that wall will get a straight edge over it it’s all done with a 2ft spat ?

Yes & no.

Originally thin coat systems were for covering ewi systems which in theory should be flat just like board & skim but external.

After meshing more like skimming than render but as you say below that the base needs to be in the ballpark.

If background not decent then often other render options are better or at the very least use a coat if render before starting the system etc to straighten up beforehand.

This is where I feel people start to go wrong as just going direct onto brickwork then tooth comb trowel off to brickwork then mesh.

They are great systems but have there limitations without sufficient prep.
 
All these new render systems out there baffle me. The best method I’ve seen is bedding mesh in with rendaid then using stipple roller . Then I would ocr it and tc over the top. It’s got to be best way in my opinion
 
All these new render systems out there baffle me. The best method I’ve seen is bedding mesh in with rendaid then using stipple roller . Then I would ocr it and tc over the top. It’s got to be best way in my opinion

Tbf they all have there place applicator error and bad choice for substrate Imo is why some get a bad name.

I'm marmite with them though would not want to use sand & cement again if I'm honest but others have total faith in sand & cement.

I like mono to look at but don't trust it, likewise don't trust sand & cement.

I like bucket coats but again I do t think there for every job.

Can't see us touching any render from next year honestly don't think it pays enough for the head ache anymore!
 
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