vfr12
MOTORC*NT
So if everything is ok there I'll live you with flynny to investigate further.
Bedroom Wall/Ceiling Chimney Damp
- Thread starter gary-m
- Start date
Easier to get up there on a dry day with a hoseHere's pic of that - am not sure water is collecting here (and lead is lipped quite well), I don't think it is but will check after rain next.
I think I've diagnosed the problem or told the best lie
Vincey
Private Member
Lol I knew looking at first picture boss, I going bed nowGlad you turned up to contribute to solving the problem lol
Cool I'll check that out will make it easier for me to explain stuff to the not so well educated on here...not nameing NNY names MAN
Well d*m**o is banned so you may be talking to yourself
vfr12
MOTORC*NT
So obviousThey are tiles
gary-m
Member
Pic does make things much easier - just press start on windows and run > mspaint. it's very basic but does the job
gary-m
Member
Easier to get up there on a dry day with a hose
Was going to say that - I'll do that when i'm up there pulling out the flue! Before or after....
Before makes it slippy pulling flue but might mean i don't need to remove it!
Flue out, sand and cement, pray i don't have to chip that out. Dry out ceiling with heat gun or replace.
BOOM, @flynnyman might be right onto it. Gypsum backing, condensation, never drying. I would follow this advice, just to be sure get the flashing looked at, make sure there's no holes at the the cladding, and await a dry wall. Good luck.We are getting closer to diagnosing it
gary-m
Member
Hahahahaha that would be the simple solution but I we have to diagnose all the other problems aswell
you get paid £50 to do the job and £500 for knowing which job needs doing.
this job you mention above, what was the effect of the non-vented chimney?
gary-m
Member
thanks! I'll update with my findings. hopefully it isn't 3 issues combined and I never really know which one really fixed it
weather permitting, the liner will be out this Saturday (got to be easier than putting one in, right - gravity an all)
i'll then hose down the joint (chimney/roof) starting low down and working up, see what happens...
The chimney wall backed into his landing wall which was damp he had the chimney on the roof rendered and also all downstairs they had attached Newton membrane which is what he wanted me to do coz it hid the problem. Unblocked the chimney in a bedroom which was full upto three foot with soot and some bricks problem solvedyou get paid £50 to do the job and £500 for knowing which job needs doing.
this job you mention above, what was the effect of the non-vented chimney?
gary-m
Member
the damp doesn't seem to increase during wet periods (or shortly after) and similarly, doesn't seem to reduce during dry periods, ie. over summer when we had a couple of weeks of little rain, i checked expecting it to reduce and didn't which was puzzling.
this makes me think that it is something with the chimney and not just a leak.
the mark on the ceiling spreads right from the wall which lines up exactly with the salt patches in the loft above also. isn't unrealistic to find the damp spreads from wall to ceiling?
haven't really considered removing the chimney as there would be roof work to do and also first floor flat roof to sort which it also joins lower down - would be a high price, i would think?
this makes me think that it is something with the chimney and not just a leak.
the mark on the ceiling spreads right from the wall which lines up exactly with the salt patches in the loft above also. isn't unrealistic to find the damp spreads from wall to ceiling?
haven't really considered removing the chimney as there would be roof work to do and also first floor flat roof to sort which it also joins lower down - would be a high price, i would think?
irish_spread
Private Member
That flashing doesn't look like lead to me , tin flashing perhaps ???
Deffo reckon it's a flashing problem, not sure how well them soakers are fitted either
Deffo reckon it's a flashing problem, not sure how well them soakers are fitted either
irish_spread
Private Member
Very hard to call without seeing it in person. 1st of all throw away your electrical conductivity meter.
2nd pic, top right corner- the 'vertical' flashing seems suspect.
3rd pic- does the soaker continue the whole way under the tile joins ?
Post 14 Can water get between cladding and bricks ?
Post 16 Flashing in 'box' emptys between tiles.
Go into the attic and have a look up where the stack goes through the roof. Put dry newspaper all around it , but not touching the bricks and wait for a rainy day. If the newspaper gets wet, it's probably a flashing problem. If not, put a hose on it as flynny says and see if the wall in your room gets damper, if it does it's probably penetrating ( thru bricks/brick flashing joints)
Possibly, as flynny also said, condensation from cowl or a flue clogged with soot which will keep leeching salts
That'll be £1000 please, London advice rates
2nd pic, top right corner- the 'vertical' flashing seems suspect.
3rd pic- does the soaker continue the whole way under the tile joins ?
Post 14 Can water get between cladding and bricks ?
Post 16 Flashing in 'box' emptys between tiles.
Go into the attic and have a look up where the stack goes through the roof. Put dry newspaper all around it , but not touching the bricks and wait for a rainy day. If the newspaper gets wet, it's probably a flashing problem. If not, put a hose on it as flynny says and see if the wall in your room gets damper, if it does it's probably penetrating ( thru bricks/brick flashing joints)
Possibly, as flynny also said, condensation from cowl or a flue clogged with soot which will keep leeching salts
That'll be £1000 please, London advice rates
gary-m
Member
The meter I have seems pretty decent and checking the whole room, only shows damp where the patch is. Anyway, I'll take its readings with a pinch of salt.
I'll get me coat.
Flashing is lead and goes right under tiles. When I'm up there, I'll take some more pics.
We're doesn't look like it's getting behind cladding now, and the wall behind cladding is ok, it all starts near the chimney.
Good idea with the newspaper, I'll get up there and do that before that hurricane turns up.
I'll remove the liner as planned anyway as this removes a possibility.
While there, I'll test flashing and look for local roofer also. How much should I be looking at to get this fixed? Approx, of course.
I'll get me coat.
Flashing is lead and goes right under tiles. When I'm up there, I'll take some more pics.
We're doesn't look like it's getting behind cladding now, and the wall behind cladding is ok, it all starts near the chimney.
Good idea with the newspaper, I'll get up there and do that before that hurricane turns up.
I'll remove the liner as planned anyway as this removes a possibility.
While there, I'll test flashing and look for local roofer also. How much should I be looking at to get this fixed? Approx, of course.
A.plasterer
Private Member
http://www.fixmyroof.co.uk/install-roof-flashings/
From info above you can check all as should be and if handy correct.
From info above you can check all as should be and if handy correct.
gary-m
Member
so the soakers on my pics are on top of the tiles? this bloke sits them underneath. is there a right way or a wrong way or is it just an option so long as done well. looking at that vid (and the other step one), makes mine look a bit crap, so I think they need sorting.
I'll nip up there maybe tonight or tomorrow and move some tiles to see how far the soakers sit underneath.
I think it might be worth either me spending day replacing or getting someone in to sort. having seen that vid, I reckon I could do a better job than what is currently in place.
the flue is coming out anyway
I'll nip up there maybe tonight or tomorrow and move some tiles to see how far the soakers sit underneath.
I think it might be worth either me spending day replacing or getting someone in to sort. having seen that vid, I reckon I could do a better job than what is currently in place.
the flue is coming out anyway
irish_spread
Private Member
A.plasterer
Private Member
May the force be with youso the soakers on my pics are on top of the tiles? this bloke sits them underneath. is there a right way or a wrong way or is it just an option so long as done well. looking at that vid (and the other step one), makes mine look a bit crap, so I think they need sorting.
I'll nip up there maybe tonight or tomorrow and move some tiles to see how far the soakers sit underneath.
I think it might be worth either me spending day replacing or getting someone in to sort. having seen that vid, I reckon I could do a better job than what is currently in place.
the flue is coming out anyway
irish_spread
Private Member
And seeing you're going to have to get a plasterer back eventually to plaster the walls, cut out the stained plasterboard bit of ceiling and leave it for a few days and observe any moisture ingress. When you're satisfied as to causes, replace the pb with foil backed p/board, to be sure , to be sure.
Also regarding the damp ceiling, is the rest of the attic insulated and that bit isn't ? That would present a 'cold spot' causing condensation and or mould.
There are '00 ' s of possible causes/ permutations, it needs to be seen by eye more so than pics
Also regarding the damp ceiling, is the rest of the attic insulated and that bit isn't ? That would present a 'cold spot' causing condensation and or mould.
There are '00 ' s of possible causes/ permutations, it needs to be seen by eye more so than pics
gary-m
Member
small patches, i can skim/plaster - should be ok with this. wouldn't take on a full ceiling mind.
thanks for info & advice.
i plan on spending some time with the flashing tomorrow and then work on the flue removal.
there is insulation on that bit of plasterboard which i'll have to tidy up when i remove the patch. has the worst insulation - little bits like pellets and then a standard roll on the top. horrible stuff especially if you cut ceiling without checking first!
thanks again for all replies - i know this is a bit of a leak question but thought (rightly) this forum would have experience of seeing that sort of patch and what i need to sort. very much appreciated.
thanks for info & advice.
i plan on spending some time with the flashing tomorrow and then work on the flue removal.
there is insulation on that bit of plasterboard which i'll have to tidy up when i remove the patch. has the worst insulation - little bits like pellets and then a standard roll on the top. horrible stuff especially if you cut ceiling without checking first!
thanks again for all replies - i know this is a bit of a leak question but thought (rightly) this forum would have experience of seeing that sort of patch and what i need to sort. very much appreciated.
gary-m
Member
ok, i've been up there but need more that a couple of hours to remove flue liner.
so I looked at the flashing, here is what I found:
Underneath seems dry but it hasn't been wet for awhile. Notice at the back gutter (which is just above the wood, top right), the wood is rotten so must have been a leak at some point. Whether it's still leaking, I'm not sure.
The other bit of wood seems dry - it all does. I pulled out a big lump of silicon or lead adhesive though, this was in the corner - they def had a leak at some point but I'm not sure it is anymore.
Underneath the tiles at the middle of the chimney
Further down..
Above is a pic of the back gutter from above the stack, i don;t think rain would build up so high to go over.
I've moved the soakers to lay under the tiles, but need some more lead to finish off (there were only 2 and I need another one for the tile on the right)
I think this corner is a bit of an issue. Hopefully when I buy some lead and make a new soaker, I can wrap in around and underneath the gutter so it's sealed.
Left it like this for now - don't think we're getting any rain soon and I'll buy lead tomorrow.
Red line shows a temp bit of lead I've shoved in behind the blue line of the gutter.
Black square where the missing soaker is and the brown circle (hard to see, on the corner) I thought might have a hole in it, but it doesn't, i took up a bottle of water and poured it in the gutter - the flow seems ok and doesn't collect too much back there.
Newspaper is tucked under the far beam in the loft and planning for flue liner removal this weekend, so long as it isn't too windy!
And yes, this is to dry out my, er, plaster - as it's a plasterers forum..
Gary
so I looked at the flashing, here is what I found:
Underneath seems dry but it hasn't been wet for awhile. Notice at the back gutter (which is just above the wood, top right), the wood is rotten so must have been a leak at some point. Whether it's still leaking, I'm not sure.
The other bit of wood seems dry - it all does. I pulled out a big lump of silicon or lead adhesive though, this was in the corner - they def had a leak at some point but I'm not sure it is anymore.
Underneath the tiles at the middle of the chimney
Further down..
Above is a pic of the back gutter from above the stack, i don;t think rain would build up so high to go over.
I've moved the soakers to lay under the tiles, but need some more lead to finish off (there were only 2 and I need another one for the tile on the right)
I think this corner is a bit of an issue. Hopefully when I buy some lead and make a new soaker, I can wrap in around and underneath the gutter so it's sealed.
Left it like this for now - don't think we're getting any rain soon and I'll buy lead tomorrow.
Red line shows a temp bit of lead I've shoved in behind the blue line of the gutter.
Black square where the missing soaker is and the brown circle (hard to see, on the corner) I thought might have a hole in it, but it doesn't, i took up a bottle of water and poured it in the gutter - the flow seems ok and doesn't collect too much back there.
Newspaper is tucked under the far beam in the loft and planning for flue liner removal this weekend, so long as it isn't too windy!
And yes, this is to dry out my, er, plaster - as it's a plasterers forum..
Gary
Last edited:
gary-m
Member
gary-m
Member
The flue is out:
As I was sweeping around the hole, i put my hands underneath
Can't see if it's damp further down
And hopefully sorted out the flashing:
Am going to get a pot and cowl for the top, hopefully later.
Worked out removing the tar from the temp flashing i put on is to heat with a heat gun and put some sand on it, then scrape it a bit, rubbing the sand in.
I reckon the condensation was forming on the metal top and running down the liner, probably into the area where the damp patch was. fairly convinced this will fix it now.
As I was sweeping around the hole, i put my hands underneath
Can't see if it's damp further down
And hopefully sorted out the flashing:
Am going to get a pot and cowl for the top, hopefully later.
Worked out removing the tar from the temp flashing i put on is to heat with a heat gun and put some sand on it, then scrape it a bit, rubbing the sand in.
I reckon the condensation was forming on the metal top and running down the liner, probably into the area where the damp patch was. fairly convinced this will fix it now.
irish_spread
Private Member
I think the flashing should be on top of the tiles
gary-m
Member
Someone also said that flashing can be either on top or under as these are tiles, slates should always be underneath.
I guess as these are porous, it would make more sense for the flashing to be on the top? 2 houses over the road are underneath tho. My newspaper still in place, so can see if it's letting in any water. After feeling the water in the chimney, am fairly sure I didn't have a roof leak but was coming from inside the chimney, so hopefully I haven't caused a different problem!
Pot and cowl put in place yesterday - the liner was riveted to the central heating alloy cowl so didn't re-use that.
I guess as these are porous, it would make more sense for the flashing to be on the top? 2 houses over the road are underneath tho. My newspaper still in place, so can see if it's letting in any water. After feeling the water in the chimney, am fairly sure I didn't have a roof leak but was coming from inside the chimney, so hopefully I haven't caused a different problem!
Pot and cowl put in place yesterday - the liner was riveted to the central heating alloy cowl so didn't re-use that.