Expanding your business

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Jgreenplastering

Jgreenplastering

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Hi all
After some advice from the people who have been in my position and what they have done.

I'm a ltd company non vat registered in domestic work only.
Currently have 2 subbies.

I've been growing and growing since I went on my own at 21, now 27 and at cross roads of what to do.

I have more work coming in than I can keep up with, not sure how to go about expanding.

I love my job and take pride in what I do.
I don't want to come off the tools but lately as I've started a few jobs at the same time I can't keep up with things.
I've just got another 2 spreads and 1 learner starting this week and my questions are.

How do people manage to stay on the tools and sort everyone else out with materials, planning, quoting and other paperwork etc?

I don't earn enough off the men I have to not work and just run around etc.
I pay them pretty well as I'm fussy with who I use and think they are worth the money.

Is there any way people have a system of have they do it?

I don't think I'm cheap but I try to be competitive while earning money and making it worth while.

Any advice or constructive criticism will be appreciated.

Thanks.
 
A hard situation, I understand your views completely as I'm at a stage where I could employ someone or have a couple of subbies and knowing what to charge them out at whilst earning a bit from them and also staying competitive is the key factor in it all. I have started to pick up some clients that aren't so worried about me being competitive but more worried about quality,I think finding the right type of client base and moving away from the dog eat dog could be more of a factor in succeeding in business as a spread with multiple employees.
 
Thanks for replies.

Many subbies are subbies as they want the work without the hassle of finding it or paperwork or getting materials so I understand that.
Once they have to start doing that then I think they should be paid more or you lose there time by them getting materials as they don't have the same working mind as you.

I have a medium sized builder who I get about 1 week of work a month off and he likes day rate so I make £10 off my spreads and around £30 off my labourer/learner.
Price jobs I pay them a little more an earn a little more.
You can only charge so much on day rate an it's nice not to be so rushed sometimes in regards to finishing quick to earn more.

I'm outside all summer rendering so money is better but most domestic jobs your in an out in a day and so limited to charges.
Luckily I am picking more work lately so maybe I need to up my costs a little to make that bit more.
Just don't want it to dry up and then have nothing and start again.
I do worry a lot and prob spend More time than I should at the end making things perfect but believe that's what gets me my work as most of it is word of mouth.

Thanks for replies guys. Appreciate it.
 
True but that is only the day work for my builder.
To put into context properly it's always 1 spread 1 lab minimum so it's £40 a day not £10
They have also been with me a over a year and I have them as they are good so I know they wouldn't do a bad job intentionally.
Mistakes would be rectified by them.
I suppose I sometimes forget that even though you have people working for you the reality is only having a few won't make you rich. It simply makes it easier sometimes in respect of keeping up with work load.
I'm only young and still have mounds to learn so that's why I ask so I can get advice from people with experience.
Thanks again.
 
That's why I asked. I completely agree. The hassle has to be worth your while. The margins you're talking about I'd work on my own with an improver and asap get him charged out at full price paying him improver wage and make more than you do currently with less hassle. When you can't keep up sub the jobs to the others but just ask for a drink on each one rather than get too involved.
Otherwise you need to be min £50 a day per man markup
 
nickelarse said:
That's why I asked. I completely agree. The hassle has to be worth your while. The margins you're talking about I'd work on my own with an improver and asap get him charged out at full price paying him improver wage and make more than you do currently with less hassle. When you can't keep up sub the jobs to the others but just ask for a drink on each one rather than get too involved.
Otherwise you need to be min £50 a day per man markup
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That's quite a lot to be making on each man isn't it? I guess if you can charge it then it works but I find some jobs I do well and some just a little and I haven't the time to work out the average I make off each a week.
I'm not doing bad just think I could be doing better and need to work out my finances.
I do need another accountant.
Not liking the one I have.
If any one knows one in bristol that's good then I'd happily have there number?
 
I'm sure people have other opinions but I don't see the benefit in earning an extra £20 a day. Over 3 guys your making say 60 a day extra on day work. That's not viable on day work. Price work as you say varies. But u should be averaging around 50 in my opinion. With 3 guys on and making it up to 4 if u came off the tools you'd like to think you could earn enough to get by
 
nickelarse said:
I'm sure people have other opinions but I don't see the benefit in earning an extra £20 a day. Over 3 guys your making say 60 a day extra on day work. That's not viable on day work. Price work as you say varies. But u should be averaging around 50 in my opinion. With 3 guys on and making it up to 4 if u came off the tools you'd like to think you could earn enough to get by
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I don't think I could find any builder that would pay £200+ on a day rate in Bristol though. Builders like a day rate as they earn a nice bit off us but even when your good most of them want it done at a lower price as they think you owe them the world with the work they pass to you.
As its a regular source I work I don't think I would want to lose it by trying to increase prices to much, an the work is good from a prepped and ready point of view plus we don't break our balls on there work.
I worry a lot about what to charge and never want to feel like I'm ripping people off but on the other hand I know if I want to earn money I need to be business minded and more ruthless I think.
 
nickelarse said:
I'm sure people have other opinions but I don't see the benefit in earning an extra £20 a day. Over 3 guys your making say 60 a day extra on day work. That's not viable on day work. Price work as you say varies. But u should be averaging around 50 in my opinion. With 3 guys on and making it up to 4 if u came off the tools you'd like to think you could earn enough to get by
Click to expand...

I don't think I could find any builder that would pay £200+ on a day rate in Bristol though. Builders like a day rate as they earn a nice bit off us but even when your good most of them want it done at a lower price as they think you owe them the world with the work they pass to you.
As its a regular source I work I don't think I would want to lose it by trying to increase prices to much, an the work is good from a prepped and ready point of view plus we don't break our balls on there work.
I worry a lot about what to charge and never want to feel like I'm ripping people off but on the other hand I know if I want to earn money I need to be business minded and more ruthless I think.
 
The trouble is you are working for the builder on a day rate and doing steady days. You need to be on price, I pay my lads their wage + bonus for completing works ahead of schedule.
 
Wezly said:
The trouble is you are working for the builder on a day rate and doing steady days. You need to be on price, I pay my lads their wage + bonus for completing works ahead of schedule.
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This is something I do on my other jobs.
It is only these that we have steady days.
It's like a little break from the rat race.
 
to run gangs on domestics / small builders is hard work. to much time spent talking to customers repeating it to workforce, running materials around, fuel cost, keeping payments up to date. we had running costs of 30%. to much stress and aggro for the profit .
we dropped the builders, accept 2 whose work we have done for over 40 years the rest is private, local councils, one land owner with over 100 properties.
 
owls said:
youll never make any money working for builders, youll make a wage, sure, but to make money you need the liability of your own projects.
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cut out the middleman.
you do need to pick up your own projects as these are your best earners. small works, one days work you need to do yourself.
you do need contacts, that takes time.
 
Your in a similar situation to me, I'm only 28

But I only have a labourer now as the guy who subbed to me was getting greedy wanting £150.00 a day and couldn't render, so I replaced the sloppy c**t with a ritmo.

I don't work for builders, as most want it cheap, I do domestics only and insurance work for a few local companies but it started to knock them back as we are very busy.

I suppose it depends on what direction you want to take your company.

You could push the domestic side, earning a decent amount and stay just under the VAT bracket like I do, invest in decent cards, flyers, nice van, nice website and do 1 job at a time, customers are hiring you on domestics and in my experience want to see you on the job and running it, not turning up to quote and sending others on for you never to be seen again.

Or try and move into the commercial sector, earning probably better money, but obviously taking on more responsibilities, get a couple of vans, CHAS, proper contracts written up for your subbies so they can't sting you on holiday and move it that way, get emailing every building firm within a 40 mile radius offering to tender for what type of work you do.

I prefer domestics personally so accept the limitations that brings, I'm never going to own a massive drylining or rendering firm I don't think I'd want too, I prefer dealing with one customer at a time and tackling 1 small project at a time.

You have to be careful with subbies as the more responsibilities they take on the more money they will want.

Try not to get too big too soon as the paper work will swallow you up and things can get on top of you.

I don't know about what you should make on a subby or a lab, I just take mine and pay him for the time we are their, if we run over on a job by a week or 2, theirs usually enough money in the job to cover that.
 
You must be very close to the vat threshold of £82000.

Paying your lab £200 per week = £11000 a year

2 x subbies at £400 each a week = £40000 a year

Materials, if your rendering must be 10k a year easily.

Leaves you with about 20k a year at best, minus your tax, I'd be tempted to drop a subby or the labourer to boost your own wage up.
 
Jgreenplastering said:
That's quite a lot to be making on each man isn't it? I guess if you can charge it then it works but I find some jobs I do well and some just a little and I haven't the time to work out the average I make off each a week.
I'm not doing bad just think I could be doing better and need to work out my finances.
I do need another accountant.
Not liking the one I have.
If any one knows one in bristol that's good then I'd happily have there number?
Click to expand...
I do a lot for a kitchen company and whilst he pays me the full amount he charges (ive seen the quotes) for fitters he charges £200 a day plus vat and pays them £150 all in. I can earn anything between £150-300 a day with him.
 
Work Monday to Thursday do all your quotes and paperwork on a Friday that way you still get a pretty full week in mate
 
Yeah if you have enough work obviously..
Or get lads you can trust to do the work for you and put your prices up to earn serious coin off them
 
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