Diesel machine for site

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Mix up a batch in ur mixer and tip it in ur ritmo. if the sand is right it will pump. if it doesnt try additives like lime or super plastisicers
 
Mix up a batch in ur mixer and tip it in ur ritmo. if the sand is right it will pump. if it doesnt try additives like lime or super plastisicers

Sorry Ian, how will this be cost effective or time saving? The whole labour process and time involved in finding the right sand and the potential for constant back fills would be horrendous!
 
Does anyone use one regularly to spray sand/cement (not bagged)
Got thousands of metre's to do in the next year!!

Hi mate, we have a lot of diesel customers. Will find out who is using this regularly and get them to contact you. I do think most have found it to be more cost effective using pre bagged. You also reduce your wastage using this method and have a good quality control.
 
Cheers Ryan.i just cannot understand how it can be more cost effective though.i might as well use my ritmo if I am using bagged gear.
I have loads of work using sand/cement on jobs i have tendered for so the prices are tight.the cheapest gear is CPI which is around £4 a m2.
You can get other for around £2.50 so
That money is my profit.
Also I like the fact I can get 10 ton of sand with a days notice.
Only down side is waiting for forklift and a labourer on the bucket which does my nut in!!!
 
Agreed, but you have to look at your labour costs, time, effort and wastage.

Pre bagged has ease options...

Not putting you off site mix as it is still great, it probably works out very similar in overall costs as bagged. You will get added benefits of both.

I was referring more to Ian's statement mixing it all yourself and putting it through the Ritmo...

If you use a diesel up against the Ritmo you will have a quicker output and a greater pumping distance on both materials.
 
Have you had a look at the PFT ZP3 xl @bobby
It's a monster electric conveying pump thats a lot cheaper and more manoeuvrable than a diesel.
 
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I have seen sand and cement used in Greece with a diesel pump. It was sand, cement, putty lime and plasticiser. This was put on quite thick on clay blocks but in several wet on wet coats. No angle beads just either timber fixed round openings or hold a stick on the corners.

It looked very wet but ended up really flat with no cracks. There was 1 labourer but 5 spreads.
 
Sorry Ian, how will this be cost effective or time saving? The whole labour process and time involved in finding the right sand and the potential for constant back fills would be horrendous!

I have used site mix many times. i mixed it in a cement mixer and pored it into the machine and pumped it. the method is exactly the same as a diesel machine. mixer drops material to a hopper and worm pump send it up the line.
The mix will have to be malleable enough to pump. i.e it must not bleed water and must not compress to a lump. The sand must have what is known as the correct granulometric curve (may have spelt it wrong) which means it must have a course, medium, fine and filler grade to be pumpable. this is where lime or super plasticiser works.
It is not possible to backfill the machine because the material is mixed. it may block and in my experience a site mix often will if left for a period of time.because there are no retarders or additives in ur mix it is not recommended to leave the mix in the pipe because being a traditional mix it will begin setting. The PFT purge hose is very helpful in this situation.
When you do find the right mix design then set up times are rapidly increased with a system in place.
A diesel plastering machine offers absolutely no benefit in application as a site mix has to be applied in 2 coats minimum, even on new block at approx 15 mm overall.. therefore a ritmo pumping it at 14lts a minute may even be a little fast for each coat.
 
i deserve a round of applause for the above i had loads of perronis and a bag full of martini esspressos just now
 
What a load of rubbish!

Ritmo:

How long can your hose be? 15m at a push

Rotor and Stator life? Minimal

Agreed not possible to back fill but easy to block! Will cost you lots of money. You have no room for error

Funny how PFT will push a Ritmo over a diesel as they don't manufacture one!!

A few points on a diesel :

One machine for the whole process - far quicker than mixing and then pouring into a wheel barrow then into the Ritmo. Labour costs!!!!

Diesel Output: 30l variable speed

Rotor and Stator Life: 40-50 tonnes

Hose length: 30m +

Not wanting to start a war but the Ritmo for site mix is the most costly route you could go down. It is a ridiculous statement to make and is very misleading.

An easy comparison for this:

The Ritmo is your spade.... The Diesel is your JCB..... Your asking someone to dig a trench 20m long and 6ft deep!!!
 
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Never used a small machine, I've always used a diesel machine to pump, as said because its a batch mixer and we just mixed it in the drum, as said seems mental to mix it in a separate mixer then mess about pouring it into the drum, it's drawing the job out . I've had the v2 and sp11 pumping up 3 floors from source no problems circa 45m up from the deck. Screed as well as rendering.You need to modify your mix otherwise it will clag. And with any sand cement mix it chomps on your r+s even with a well graded sand.
 
Go an have a drink Ryan, chill

I am giving advice based on my own extensive experience. reading through your comments here you clearly have no experience with site mix and need to make some phone calls just to get some answers which even then will be someone else's experience.

Bobby has a ritmo and a mixer. if he gets the right mix it will work. it wont cost him anything but his time. You have no experience on site mixes so why not get of you're arse and get some. Maybe you will contribute some realistic advice. Why should a diesel machine mix any different to a site mixer. Why should a diesel machine pump site mix through a worm pump and an electric worm pump won't

If i was in you're position i would take on board my comments and try some site mixes with the EZE 24. Then the next time the age old above question comes up about pumping sand/cement you will have an answer that is helpful to the forum. I see you mention time after time that the EZE is suitable for monocouche so why not a site mix.
 
Never used a small machine, I've always used a diesel machine to pump, as said because its a batch mixer and we just mixed it in the drum, as said seems mental to mix it in a separate mixer then mess about pouring it into the drum, it's drawing the job out . I've had the v2 and sp11 pumping up 3 floors from source no problems circa 45m up from the deck. Screed as well as rendering.You need to modify your mix otherwise it will clag. And with any sand cement mix it chomps on your r+s even with a well graded sand.

he has a mixer and a ritmo. it makes more sense to try the kit you have surely before purchasing more equipment. if he decides pumping site mix is the way forward then he can consider his options. how is it any more work. you shovel the stuff in let it mix then either pour it direct in the hopper or into a barrow. Its not a perfect set up but it will work.
 
Ryan, Ian isn't arguing that the Ritmo is a better tool than the diesel! Nor is he trying to flog him a ritmo.
The fact is bobby has a ritmo at present which CAN be used for what he is asking, and your telling him he needs diesel (which incidentally would chomp into his profits by 20K at a guess).

As for saying its more labour intensive, you keep pushing pre blend, which with his ritmo you just dump the bags in and go, with a diesel you have to have a guy stood there batching! So in that respect using a ritmo with site mix ain't much more work than using the diesel anyway.

As for pre blend having its pros, on a small job yes granted. Have you done much rendering yourself with Sand and Cement? Because I can tell you when you start using a pre blend sand and cement over site mix your looking at another 100% in material cost!! Which can be upto another £100 per day! It would make more sense to have a extra set of hands for that money, who is then productive throughout the whole day rather than the convenience of blended for the short time your spraying.

Not having a go just saying like.
 
he has a mixer and a ritmo. it makes more sense to try the kit you have surely before purchasing more equipment. if he decides pumping site mix is the way forward then he can consider his options. how is it any more work. you shovel the stuff in let it mix then either pour it direct in the hopper or into a barrow. Its not a perfect set up but it will work.

I wasn't argueing differently, I was just answering his question that he asked in his first post that is all, based on having a method with either of my diesel pumps and doing 1000's of metres over the years.I'm lucky in that I have various machines that I can use on there merit for each project, I agree purchasing another machine for it is ludicrous.
 
no there was 4 sand 1 cement and plasticiser. I never sent it up the pipe. getting it to pump without separating was the first hurdle i wanted to test.
The sand is all important.
I spoke to a local chap who sells super plastisicers and they use it in concretes to make them more pumpable.
You could spend a bit of time and produce a good pumpable mix using all local sourced materials. I did but truth is it was not as free as using a bagged product.
Just a thought here though @bobby if its plain faced render you are doing the weber OCR is an economical alternative. Its 4.95 a bag m2 delivered but finished in one coat on new block. That system works out profitable by the production rate.

I did a comparison on here some months ago
 
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Cheers guys will give it some thought.
I am buying sand by the 10 ton and although it is good sand you get the odd chipping now and again which isn't ideal.
As said bagged gear is 100% more costly so it's swings and round abouts.
 
surely weber OCR is the way to go here. material costs be about £ 6.50 a mtr inc beads and gear. a gang should cover 200 m2 a week
 
you can do as much as you want as long as its good enough to get paid.

now and again we get a nice run, then we got fiddles, rain, no gear 1 man has a day off etc etc

200m2 is a safe bet for 1 gang
 
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